The Masala y Maíz chefs talk mole, valuing Mexican food, and what restaurant family really means.

Norma Listman and Saqib Keval

Chefs and restaurant workers take great care of everyone else, but often they need a little help themselves. Each week, Food & Wine senior editor Kat Kinsman talks with hospitality pros about they manage their business, brain, and body for the long haul. Is there a topic you'd like to know more about or a guest you'd love to hear from? Tell us at or tweet to Kat @kittenwithawhip, and subscribe to the weekly Food & Wine Pro newsletter so you never miss an episode. Catch up on previous episodes here.

Episode 91: Norma Listman and Saqib Keval

It's hard to open a restaurant. It's indescribably stressful to have to open your restaurant four separate times, for reasons (earthquake, local government corruption, pandemic) out of your control. But Norma Listman and Saqib Keval believe in the vision of Masala y Maiz, their Mexico City restaurant and co-op, so fiercely that they keep on working. They joined Communal Table for a fascinating conversation about recipes as documentation of a culture, the impact of white supremacy on food media, the might of masa, and their blueprint for a restaurant culture that is built for the health of the workers.

Links and Resources

If you like what you hear, subscribe to, comment on, and rate Communal Table on these platforms or wherever you get your podcasts: